Episode 39: Why Employees Forget Your Values feat. Ann Melinger

Emre (00:07.694)
Okay, even though we did record the intro, just to be on the safe side, I will welcome you back to another episode of the Team Check-In. I'm your host, Emre, and with me today I have Anne Mellinger, is the founder of Pink, and she has over 25 years of employee engagement and cultural transformations experience and...

I may seem like I'm speeding through this intro because we actually did it once and we're doing it again because I did run into some technical troubles, but just to be on the safe side and welcome to the show for the second time today. Can you introduce yourself to our lovely audience?

Ann Melinger, Bink (00:53.404)
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here and technical difficulties happen to us all the time. I was speaking on a webinar just yesterday and somebody was ringing my doorbell incessantly and I had to leave in the middle of the webinar to tell them to stop. So this is the world we operate in now, right? We just have to make it work where we can.

But thank you again for having me. I'm really happy to be here and happy to be speaking to your audience in particular, who I imagine is largely from an HR background. I come from a slightly different background. My background is in communications. So I studied communications in college and I started my career working in global communications agencies with a focus on employee communications. And my firm was founded in 2008.

As an employee communications agency really focused on the calm side, but what we started to see in the last 10 or 12 years or so was this real convergence between HR and communications and that when those two functions work hand in hand, you really can drive meaningful outcomes from a culture and engagement perspective. And so my team today is made up of both people with a traditional communications background and an HR background.

and we work seamlessly with teams on both sides of the house. And really, like I said, I enjoy that experience of connecting the dots between here's what communications can do through messaging, through clarity, through driving alignment. Here's what HR can do through programs, policies, really driving employee behavior. And I think together the combination is really powerful.

Emre (02:38.176)
It is and communication as an umbrella term, it's this weird aspect that kind of falls under everyone's jurisdiction. You don't expect a single department to take care of all the communications. Everyone in the organization kind of has to cover that role in some sort of way. Sometimes the HR department kind of has to run point on that, but.

regardless of where you are, where you're coming in to the company, it is one of the most key areas. And today, this is a topic I am so excited to talk to you about because this episode is actually going to be about company values. And I am excited talking about this because it is something that many of us, many organizations take for granted. In fact,

I know, like I personally know the values of Teamflect the company that I am a part of. But if you were to ask me, Hey, Emre to go back to your last couple, three jobs and tell me the company values of those organizations. I wouldn't be able to say it. I wouldn't be able to tell you. And that is a problem. Cause for most of us, for many people from the outside looking in company values and mission, it's kind of like this little checkbox.

They know you have to have it. have to, you gotta have it on the website, but you're suggesting they are not. So can you walk me through some of like the misconception around company values overall?

Ann Melinger, Bink (04:17.928)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you hit on the big one right there. I think a lot of companies and organizations and leaders feel we have to have them and it becomes a check the box activity. And we often say that values can almost become like wallpaper within an organization, meaning like we have to have them, we have to hang them on the wall. They look good, but they don't actually guide any decisions or any behaviors. They're very decorative and they're not directional.

And we know that they're really just acting as wallpaper for exactly the reason you listed as well. Employees can't name them. But even more importantly than just naming them, it's like, are they actually being used in decisions? Are they being referenced in hiring decisions, in promotion decisions, in strategy? And most importantly, does leadership model them? That is something that is super important.

And I think the probably the number one thing that companies get wrong about values, and you and I have talked a bit about Brene Brown and our shared love of all things, Brene Brown. One of the things that Brene Brown always says about values is that if you take the time to define values, but you don't actually pull them all the way through to value driven behaviors.

you're wasting your time. And in fact, most companies don't go that extra step. And that's the piece that I think a lot of organizations get wrong. They think we need values, let's just have a bunch of words, but they don't take the extra step to define those into behaviors and to then pull those behaviors into key decisions that are being made across the organization.

Emre (05:58.508)
That is so true because yet, like you said, they often tend to be very ambiguous and kind of vague and kind of out there. I love this idea. So what are some examples you've seen throughout your career where you've seen, okay, that's company values done right. That's how it's supposed to be.

Ann Melinger, Bink (06:08.541)
Exactly.

Ann Melinger, Bink (06:21.66)
Yeah, I think the number one thing that is really showing you that it's that it's working is when leadership is using values, both they're demonstrating them in their own behavior, but they're also using them as a filter for decisions, even when it's inconvenient. You know, a lot of times I say that values show up when a company is under pressure. It's kind of like you've probably heard the saying to a person's true character shows up when they're in times of challenge.

I can be nice and friendly all the time, but who am I really when I'm under pressure? That's who I am really. And it's the same with company values. Who is the company when it's under pressure? And those are the values that show up. you know, seeing that leadership models the values and uses them to drive behaviors, even when it's inconvenient, that is really showing me that values are done right.

The other thing is kind of what I mentioned. Are they defined into behaviors? Are they integrated into performance management, feedback, recognition programs? Are you compensating people based on demonstrating valued behaviors? That's the gold standard as far as I'm concerned.

Emre (07:29.972)
Awesome. And just to make things like even more specific, can you give me like an example of a simple company value and then that value defined into a behavior?

Ann Melinger, Bink (07:44.031)
Sure, absolutely. Well, so let's say one of the values is we push back with respect or we challenge with respect, something like that. That might be the value. A behavior would be, I ask clarifying questions instead of making assumptions. That's a very specific behavior. I give feedback privately and praise publicly.

That's another very specific behavior. The behaviors really need to be something that you can see or hear on a regular Thursday afternoon inside your company. They need to be very specific things that I can see myself being called upon to do.

Emre (08:30.636)
That's perfect. if we, let's say we have to go on the opposite direction, what do you think? And I think I'm pretty sure you deal with this a lot where you ask someone like, so what are your company values? And they say something and go like, that's not a value. So, what is the absolute wrong way to do company values? Like what's the wrong way to define a company value?

Ann Melinger, Bink (08:49.329)
Mm.

Ann Melinger, Bink (08:57.436)
Yeah, I mean, think a lot of times, again, people all, we all have preconceived notions that we bring about values, whether it's from other companies that we've worked at or just what we see out there. And a lot of times I think the biggest pitfall that I see is companies just feeling like there are certain words that we have to say. We absolutely have to say integrity. We have to say integrity. If I don't say integrity is one of my core values, then there's something so wrong with me. And

The idea is actually understanding that core values are truly core to who you are. very, they're very much define you and they're very differentiating versus like just a universal expectation. Listen, anyone who comes to work for me, I universally expect that you're going to be ethical and respectful. You're not going to, you're not going to steal from me. You're not going to punch me. You're not going to curse at me. Those kinds of things. don't.

make that one of my core values. That is just a universal expectation. So I think that's probably one of the biggest pitfalls is getting tripped up on what do we mean by core values versus just general expectations. And as far as I'm concerned, a general expectation of appropriate behavior that can all be captured in a code of conduct. That is not a core.

Emre (10:18.454)
I like that the code of conduct versus company values. And when you think about it, if you're, if you're not careful, those two things might get mixed up somewhere along the way. That's very true. mean, like common decency shouldn't be a part of your company values. I cover my mouth when I'm sneezed. That's not a value. Yeah.

Ann Melinger, Bink (10:29.82)
Exactly.

Ann Melinger, Bink (10:39.514)
Exactly.

Emre (10:43.51)
I full on get that. And I do think, however, when like organizations are initially building and we talked about this with other guests on our show as well, but especially in like the starting phase, the early phases, right? The cultural aspect, the culture that they're trying to build, that never takes a priority, right? The initial, when you're building a startup, when you're, you know, on those early stages,

Ann Melinger, Bink (11:00.264)
Mm-hmm.

Emre (11:12.886)
It's initially, we got to do this, we got to have this, we got to hit these marks and we got to sell, sell, sell. We got to grow, grow, grow. And more often than not, like they even bring in HR departments way too late until it is way too late. And I feel like the same goes for culture and values as well in an organization, right?

Ann Melinger, Bink (11:16.692)
All

Ann Melinger, Bink (11:34.121)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. mean, a lot of times, listen, with my organization, we're typically working with very large established enterprises that have core values and a lot of times we're helping them refresh them. But we do often work with early stage companies as well. And I think it's even more important in those kinds of organizations to define culture and particularly values, which to me is the North Star of culture very early, because in a startup situation, you need people to be able to make decisions on their own.

Right? You need them to be able to just go off and act quickly and make decisions without a lot of information and to do so very quickly. And values are what guides them to be able to do that. Values are the North Star.

So when I'm an employee at a startup and I'm being thrown with lots of uncertainty and the need to make decisions on the fly, I need to have something to guide me and that's what values can do. So especially in an early stage company and a startup, it is so important to get clear on what, how do you want people to make those decisions and think of values as that North Star for them.

Emre (12:40.622)
amazing, but I feel like that's easier said than done. because I have actually not even like the value, but in like previous organizations, I've actually that were like way past the startup phase. I've been in meetings and people were talking about the North Star metric and we, we had a hard time defining our North Star metric and it was like way ahead into the company. So

Ann Melinger, Bink (13:05.576)
Yeah.

Emre (13:11.096)
How does an organization build their values from scratch?

Ann Melinger, Bink (13:17.576)
Yeah. So it's funny. A lot of times when we're doing any sort of employee type initiative, we'll say it has to start from the bottom up. But I would say when it comes to core values, it really needs to start from the top down because if leadership, I said this earlier and I believe it so firmly that if leadership does not believe, model and use the values to make decisions day to day, the whole effort is going to fall apart.

So that's why whenever we're starting with an organization, we start at the very top. And one of the ways that we go about helping leaders to find their core values is through storytelling. It's something that can really help them get clear on what they, what good looks like, right? We're trying to really get them to think about what does good look like here. And so one of the ways we'll do that is through a storytelling exercise where we'll sit down with senior leaders and we'll ask them,

Tell us a story of an action an employee took that just stopped you in your tracks. And you were like, yes, this is what I want. I wish I could clone this person. I wish they could do this all across the organization. And like you see their eyes light up. They immediately can think of a person, a story, an example, and you want to really dig into that. What did they do? Why did they do it? What difference did it make? What could have gone differently if they didn't make that decision?

And from those stories, what you're pulling out is actual behaviors that leaders want to see. And you're able to then sort of back into what leaders value from those behaviors. So it's a little bit of a backing into it approach, but we find that it's a really good way to get leaders very clear on what does good look like. Because if you start with values, you run the risk of just like we were talking about, they have these certain words in their mind that they know have to be there. And we want to wipe theirs.

minds clear of words like integrity and collaboration and teamwork. We just want them getting very specific about behaviors. Once you've done that, then you do need to pressure test it with employees. It can't just be done by leadership and with leadership. It has to be then talking to employees and saying, do these core values align with the things that you're experiencing day to day? Because when you're defining core values, they need to be about

Ann Melinger, Bink (15:42.069)
80 % grounded in your current reality and maybe 20 % aspirational. And so if they're too aspirational and they just reflect, this is what leadership really wants, and they're not reflected in what employees are experiencing, that's a recipe for trouble as well. So once you've kind of got an initial list from your work with leadership, then you want to take it to employees and find out does this match their experience. And you can do that through focus groups and even one-on-one conversations.

Emre (16:11.214)
I adore the storytelling approach. if like, you know, that a method is good when, know, you're telling me about like this little practice and in my head, the wheels are spinning. I'm going to like, this thing, my colleague did this thing that we did that guy. And I'm like matching them up with a company values. That's brilliant. That's absolutely brilliant. And I love it. And

Ann Melinger, Bink (16:25.926)
Exactly.

Ann Melinger, Bink (16:33.972)
Exactly.

Emre (16:38.974)
I'm, but I'm a little hung up on something that you said earlier about when you were like, when you're working with, said you, you said you work with enterprise clients on refreshing their company values. Now, when do you know, or like, at what point do you know that like a company value needs refreshing?

Ann Melinger, Bink (17:01.436)
It's not always clear. It's a good habit to revisit them from time to time, no matter what. In fact, funny enough, just a few weeks ago, I got my own team together and we looked at our company values. And I didn't think that much would change from them. We have three core values. We live them every day. They're incorporated into our experience. Employees are measured on them. And I really felt like, you know, we're going to look at them, but probably...

we're not going to change that much. And in fact, once we sat down and looked at them, some of the language in some of the descriptors didn't feel like they still matched who we are. So I share that to say, even if you don't think that it's time for a change, it's always worth doing a periodic review. So I would say at least once a year, just take a moment, sit down, revisit them, and look at whether or not they are still resonating. You don't want to change them.

all the time, if they're core values, shouldn't need to change all the time, but it is important to just hold yourself accountable to that. But I think in general, know, a value refresh is probably due if there's been a significant change to the company, it's undergone a major transformation, either they've scaled or they've merged or there's, you know, we're working with a company right now that has a completely new leadership team, new CEO, CFO, CIO.

When you have a completely new leadership team, that's another time. So it's especially when those big changes are happening, but then also understanding how your employees are feeling about them, right? Can your people articulate them or are they just rolling their eyes? know, do they actually help to resolve conflict or guide decisions? If you can't say affirm yes to those questions, then it's probably time for a refresh.

Emre (18:52.019)
And have you seen instances where a company has outgrown their values?

Ann Melinger, Bink (18:59.724)
absolutely. mean, again, especially in the case of perhaps undergoing a merger, you we work with a company that, you know, had a very clear set of values based on what they did for many years. They've been around for 90 years and so their values are very clear and consistent. But then over time they went through a whole bunch of, mergers and acquisitions and that meant they were entering new business areas and the values weren't reflecting some of these new realities and new focuses.

Not to mention when you're doing a lot of acquisitions, you have employees coming in that are bringing their own values. And so if you're not taking the time to really look across and have a defined set of core values that really aligns the entire organization, including those newly acquired employees, then that's a problem as well.

Emre (19:52.916)
Exactly. I mean, also, it doesn't even have to be like necessarily the company growing, but the times changing overall.

Ann Melinger, Bink (20:03.46)
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, that's very similar to what we just experienced with our own company values. A lot of what we had in there was really reflective of this particular time and particular things that we were focused on four or five years ago when we developed them. And now we've evolved, our work has evolved. And so evolving some of that language makes sense.

Emre (20:27.086)
when you think about it, company values not being set in stone and being concrete enough that people can rely on them and use them as like a north star, like you said, like this concrete example, but also fluid enough that they're not rigid and they can change. That's very important because the more I think about it, and I just want to say thank you because

Ann Melinger, Bink (20:41.342)
Yeah.

Emre (20:55.532)
before our initial conversation, company values was not like something that I thought very much about either. It was never something on my mind. But after we talked, the more I thought about company values, the more I realized, like as a person, my values change. My values change. Like I'm thinking back to, you know, college Emre and you know, that poor kid, that poor kid and his values.

Ann Melinger, Bink (21:14.338)
Yeah, absolutely.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emre (21:22.732)
And now I'm thinking back to me or even like a couple years back in like a different job, my values were like, they were like very different. And that is very true that like the company values should also be, you know, that flexible. But again, that's it's such a tight rope too, you know, like flexible, but also like solid enough.

Ann Melinger, Bink (21:28.784)
Absolutely.

Ann Melinger, Bink (21:45.669)
Absolutely. I agree. I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think it is such a fine balance. There's no clear answer. A lot of times people say, how often do you have to refresh your values? And as any good consultant will tell you, it depends. And I really do think it does depend. They need to be consistent enough that they are able to be a North Star and also that you're open to refreshing them as your business evolves.

Emre (22:15.21)
Exactly. My two favorite words in the English language. It depends that when they come together, it's, it's absolute magic. And I just want to ask you, was there ever an instance, an example where, from the outside, you know, coming in to an organization as a consultant, have you seen like a gross mismatch between, you know, an organization's practices?

Ann Melinger, Bink (22:19.997)
Yes.

Exactly.

Emre (22:43.532)
and their values and they were probably like possibly unaware of it. Like without naming any names, can you give us like an example of it?

Ann Melinger, Bink (22:45.617)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Melinger, Bink (22:49.363)
Yeah.

It happens all the time. mean, the one thing that I'll say, my perspective is always a little bit skewed because I think anytime a company is choosing to make an investment and working with us, they already are pretty advanced in terms of thinking about their values and caring about this stuff. So the ones that are the most egregious are probably not going to make an investment in working on their culture with a company like mine. a lot of times when, but a lot of times when they do bring us in, it's because there is a mismatch. There is a lack of alignment. And again,

And sometimes that happens, I'd say we see it most often in a company that has grown very rapidly, whether it's through acquisition or not. It's through that rapid growth that sometimes you can lose sight of values that you developed five years ago. And then you're just growing so quickly and moving so quickly that you're not giving yourself time for the values to catch up to where you are. That's when we really see the mismatch. You just take your eyes off of them for a while and just keep going and going. I think we've all been in those situations.

We've all probably been in companies like that where you just have to put your head down and move as fast as you can and that's where the disconnect can start to build.

Emre (24:03.118)
Perfect. I mean, if we take things a bit to the HR direction, how does... Let me rephrase this. So how do company values align with your recruitment strategy? How does an organization pinpoint candidates that share their values?

Ann Melinger, Bink (24:31.252)
Absolutely. I think it starts with having a very clearly defined employee value proposition. That is something that I think most organizations know and understand needs to be sort of the precursor to any hiring strategy is getting very crystal clear on why should somebody come and work here. I want you to have a very clear answer on why should

an employee come and choose to build their career with your company? And part of that answer needs to have to do with your values. You need to make sure that you are very clear about your values in your employee value proposition so that you can.

help candidates understand what they're signing up for. They need to understand, my personal values align with what is important to the company? That's something that's really important. And if that's not clear in your EVP, then therefore clear in your hiring materials, your career site, your job post, things like that, then you're missing that first initial opportunity to educate candidates about what's important to you. That's...

sort of step one, I think the next step is really making sure that the hiring process reflects your values. And so that can be through everything like, are your interview questions based on values? Or how are you bringing your values into?

panels, for example, and other types of interview exercises. That's something that's really important. And then finally, you know, making sure once a candidate has been hired and has agreed to join, making sure your values are coming through loud and clear in your orientation and onboarding, because I think it's those early days when people are really looking for signals of

Ann Melinger, Bink (26:18.68)
is what you told me in the hiring process consistent with what I'm experiencing now that I'm here as an employee.

Emre (26:25.294)
And I think that responsibility kind of fits, falls on not just like the organization, but the, like their colleagues and peers as well. Right. Because a new hire, someone just joining the organization, I don't think they're going to spot your company values through the employee handbook. I don't think anyone who scans an employee handbook looks at, so these are our company values. And.

okay. So I need to be more, this is the company value. I need to do this. So let me just make the apply those behaviors. I think people pick up on company values, not even from the managers, but from like their peers and their colleagues and someone who's in the trenches with them.

Ann Melinger, Bink (27:14.356)
Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. It's like, how are you interacting with me? How are you engaging with me? Are you focused? Are you open? Do you challenge? Are you all business all the time? are we also, do we care about each other's personal lives? Things like that, you're right. They come through in the day-to-day interactions. Absolutely.

Emre (27:35.916)
And now that the wheels are spinning in my head, how do we integrate company values properly into performance management, into performance appraisals? Because when you're thinking about a proper performance review template, if you're doing it right, you have the employees' goals on one end, like their goal completion rates, everything. And then you also have the competency side, like the

competency framework from the role. Maybe if you're using our product, you also have 360 feedback in there and all the other good stuff. But how do we integrate, you know, your company's values into the performance review properly?

Ann Melinger, Bink (28:21.438)
To me, that is the gold standard. That's ultimately what you're trying to get to. I we talked about values and defining values into behaviors. And the next sort of like drill down from that is to define behaviors into competencies. And I really feel strongly that that is the number one best way to help your values come to life. I think that.

all competencies should be anchored in values so that it becomes all one integrated system and your values become measurable. So having expectations for each level being really clear, this is what it looks like to meet these competencies, to exceed, to need development and to be really, really clear. Again, the purpose of values and behaviors is to really define this is what good looks like here.

And what better way to do that than through very clear specific competencies that are incorporated into your performance management process in a way that creates fairness, it creates clarity, it creates consistency across the enterprise.

Emre (29:21.838)
I gotta say, usually when someone is talking to a consultant, I mean, consultants get a bad rep, right? The term consultant has been diluted to smithereens over the years, because of companies that I will not name their names because they are too gigantic, but nobody knows what they actually do and whatever. And when you're talking to a...

Ann Melinger, Bink (29:38.228)
Absolutely.

Ann Melinger, Bink (29:44.787)
Yep.

Emre (29:50.03)
quote unquote consultant and they start explaining, you know, what they offer and the things they do, they hit you with so much jargon and you go like, I don't understand what they're saying, but I think the fault is with me. So I'm going to pretend I understand. I just have to say, and when you're explaining these processes, you're doing it in such an awesome way that everything kind of lines up. And I can see like, you know,

Ann Melinger, Bink (30:06.292)
Mm.

Ann Melinger, Bink (30:14.502)
Thank you. Good.

Emre (30:19.446)
illustrations and graphics in my head as you're talking. So first we started with the company value and then that value, you know, we went down into behaviors and now we're taking those behaviors into competencies, which is awesome. So it's very easy to track. It's very smart and it fits very neatly. So thank you very much.

Ann Melinger, Bink (30:33.04)
Exactly.

Ann Melinger, Bink (30:37.481)
Cut.

Ann Melinger, Bink (30:40.798)
Good, good. I love a framework. I always love a framework.

Emre (30:46.514)
Exactly. so, can you give us an example of that framework actually in action? So like a value into a behavior into like a competency to be evaluated in a review.

Ann Melinger, Bink (31:02.846)
Sure, absolutely. mean, if we go back to the example of the value being we challenge with respect and the behavior might be we ask clarifying questions instead of making assumptions, the competency might be something, it might be more of an I statement very specifically and drilling into what are your expectation at different levels. It's hard to get, it's hard to give an example of a competency because different

companies do competencies differently. Some do them by level, some do them by function, some do both at the same time. But again, it's then getting very specific of what does it look like? What is a comp? What is a

Emre (31:33.422)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Melinger, Bink (31:45.887)
a competent person that has mastered the ability to ask clarifying questions instead of making assumptions, what does that look like? And then building that into your performance management system and also build that into your recognition. I think that's an important piece of this. So I think it's like two sides of the same coin.

Competencies and performance management is one side, but also recognizing and celebrating those behaviors and skills and action is the other side. So you wanna make sure that you're doing both. You're not just measuring people on it, you're also celebrating people for it and recognizing them for it.

Emre (32:25.294)
Amazing amazing and again, you know the recognize not just recognizing appreciate but actually celebrating that it's such a key practice and that is something we absolutely love over here at Teamflect then if I like we we are like an Performance management solution but like our roots like initially we were just the recognition software It started and it grew from there. So like recognitions. They're very near and dear to us. So I love that and

Ann Melinger, Bink (32:35.163)
Exactly.

Ann Melinger, Bink (32:49.065)
Hmm.

Ann Melinger, Bink (32:53.682)
Yeah.

Emre (32:55.986)
And I think the note I want to wrap up on, and I think my main like big question is, let's say I'm a listener and I've been listening to the episode and let's say, I mean, I'm sure this is an actual scenario. I just listened to this episode of the team check-in and Anne Mellinger just blew my mind. And I'm just thinking, wait, like I have a company and I'm realizing

Our values aren't working. We've had it all wrong. Or, you know, we could have gone a different way. What should they do? What do you recommend?

Ann Melinger, Bink (33:35.251)
Well, you've already done the first thing, which is listening. And that's the most important thing. So if you're listening to this and that's what you're picking up, I would say continue to listen, go back to your organization and listen to your people. Employees usually know what's working and what's not. And so sit down and talk to people. Talking to employees is my number one favorite thing to do. Get a group of people together, have an informal conversation and really ask.

Where are values helping us today? And where are they hurting us? Where are they absent? Another way to think about this is to actually do a decision audit. So look back at the last 10 or 12 or 30 decisions that you've made and ask, do they reflect my values?

Did I use my values to help guide these decisions? And so by doing some of that sort of like listening and thinking, that can be a really great place to start. And then I would say one of the biggest things that I think trips up companies when they're doing this work is that it can feel like a very big and overwhelming effort. And I would say start small. Try to identify one small change first to help strengthen

your values and their usefulness to your organization overall. Don't try to do everything all at once, but start with one thing. Maybe it's looking at your recognition program. Is it tied to values? Maybe it's refreshing the language. Maybe it's looking at your interview questions and do they reflect your values? Choose one thing because if you try to do it all, you're going to get overwhelmed and end up not doing anything at all.

Emre (35:17.576)
Awesome. And another thing they could possibly do is reach out to Ann Mellinger, reach out to Bink and actually schedule a consultation. And Ann, how do they do that? Where can people find you?

Ann Melinger, Bink (35:29.332)
Absolutely.

Absolutely. Thank you for asking. I'd love to connect with any of your listeners. If you go to thinkbank.com slash podcast, that's think bank B I N K dot com slash podcast. There's a whole list of resources and ways to get in touch. Sign up for our newsletter, reach out to me on LinkedIn. All of that will be right there in one easy place. And yeah, I love to connect and I love to talk about this. I could talk about culture and values all day long. It's my favorite.

Emre (36:03.466)
Amazing. And I can be right there on the other side of that conversation for sure. And if you're listening to us on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you find podcasts, leave us like, subscribe. It really helps the show out. And if you want to find out more about the highest rated performance management solution in the Microsoft Teams ecosystem, Teamflect, you can always click the link in the description. This has been the Team check-in. Bye-bye everyone. And this was really good. I had a great time. Thank you so much for doing this.

Ann Melinger, Bink (36:33.269)
I'm so glad, I'm so glad, it was a pleasure. I'm glad we got past some of the technical difficulties. I think it was a good conversation.

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